1. Friendships At Work

We're very excited to kick off our brand new podcast about everything leadership: From building your career, to mentorship, sisterhood, and much more. And to add more flavour to these conversations, I'm doing it with my close friend Tiana!

We first connected on Instagram, and we attended the same conference in Florence. And here we are, 11 years later. 

Both Tiana and I have a combined 30 years of experience in various sectors of the media industry. And we've experienced a lot of these topics firsthand – in The Good, the Bad, and The Ugly.

We'll dive into all of these conversations plus those elephant-in-the-room topics that many women experience on the daily. We're going to break down really important topics that specifically affect women like personal growth, leadership skills, how to advance your career, negotiating, and equality in the workplace. 

We can't wait to have you join us on Season One of Women Lead.

Hey, Nadia! 

Hey, Tiana.

What's happening on your side of the world, girl?

What is happening? Well, this is our first episode, which is launching on Women's Day. I'll pretend right now as we're recording – it's Women's Day, International Women's Day! Very exciting stuff.

And I thought it would be cool to just dive in and take a look at what the theme was this year. So on their website, they always have a bunch of information, internationalwomensday.com, and this year's theme is 'embrace equity'. And I thought that was interesting because many times we're always talking about equality, equality, equality, women having gender equality, equality in the workplace – and that is totally shifting now to equity.

And so what does that mean? Exactly? So basically, equality means every individual group of people is given the same resources and opportunities. Why is that changing? Well, equity recognizes that each person has different circumstances, right. And so we need to allocate resources and opportunities to all of those people, despite their different circumstances, to reach an equal outcome. I thought that was a very good definition taken directly from their website.

It makes sense. Thanks for breaking it down, though, because I feel like there's, like, we think we know what it means, but when you read it, you're like, okay, that's very clear to me, you know?

Yeah, I thought that was a really concise way of describing it. And so – to get into our topic today, to give everyone equal, not equal opportunities, but to give the resources and means for people with different circumstances, to reach an equal outcome, one of our big themes is making sure that you feel safe and are accepted, and you strive to reach those opportunities at work. And how do you do that? I mean, in many different ways. But one of those, let's say facilitators is when you have a really trusted friend, and for women, especially when you have a trusted girlfriend, a work wife, at work. And so we wanted to talk about that today, and what that looks like, how to meet your work best friend, if we have them. If you have one Tiana, I don't know, and, how do we go about building those relationships, and what that brings to the table, and how does that help us? 

Yeah, it's actually well, there's a few things that come to mind. One is how there's been all these studies that the more diverse and equal playing field across team members that teams strive better and they do better work, and then the other is just understanding, keeping in mind that obviously, if we're happier at work, can we have relationships at work, we tend to also be great team members and might stay longer and you know, work harder by way of feeling like we're contributing, versus this quiet quitting thing that's happening everywhere. That's another topic. But yeah, I think this is important for ourselves.

But also, I remember this being a conversation with a VP of mine years ago at a different – when I was in-house in a corporation. And there was somebody where, we were talking about like, oh, we need to make sure like we want her to feel supported. This person needs a friendship at work. And so I had to speak to this person and kind of explain, you know, not say, "you need a friend", but kind of guide them of being like you, girl, definitely need a friend. I'd be like, do you feel connected to anyone?

Like have you tried, you know, how are you connecting with the team and, you know, like, softly kind of put it out there just knowing that – because, as a manager you don't, you know, you want your team to feel good, and you want your team to feel good coming to work and enjoying who they work with, so everything is relationships, and in friendships, even better – I know some companies are like, we're not a family, we're a team. And because family means there's no boundaries, and team means there's boundaries. I'm just like, whatever you want to call it, I don't care. I think it's just the fact that it's, it's still friendships at the end of the day, and it's networking at its core.

So I guess the best thing is, do you have a work best friend, like, how do you identify in your end, like, who you have on your side, because I feel like you, Nadia, would have a lot of girlfriends on in your work, maybe has maybe husbands too, I don't know!

I have both! I have work wives and work husbands. But I feel really lucky that I have more than one best friend at work, I think. And that's always been true in every company I've worked with. And usually in different departments, that's also, I think, key, when you obviously work with many different aspects of the company, or different things that you have to accomplish, it's really important to also reach out to other team members or other people, you know, that maybe not, might not be directly in your team, but who you would need to know and have a really good relationship with. And sometimes that develops into a good, you know, best friend type of relationship.

But so I'm lucky to count at least, at least three really good work best friends, currently, they'll remain nameless, or else people will feel bad! But yeah, and they are in different departments of my company. And, I found that that has been really, really been crucial. Some of them I've known for quite a long time. Some of them I've known for much less time. And one, for example, we've been friends, you know, outside of work, and then actually through her, got my job at the company that I'm at now. And yeah, it all comes down to what you're saying Tiana, like, personal relationships are so so important.

And it's maybe not always a good idea to draw that line on, where you have a best friend in or outside of work. Because this is the perfect example I worked with someone in a previous job, who I really liked. And we really worked well together. We got along together, we hung out outside of work together. And we stayed in touch. And that actually led to me getting when I was ready to leave that previous company getting the job I currently have. So that's that's one big plus takeaway right there. But let's talk about – I want to hear from you. What, how do you even define or identify? Who could be work best friend? Like, how do you start? What's your take on it?

Yeah, I mean, before I start with that, the one thing really comes to mind where I was at – I was like, six months into this agency I've been at now like, over almost two years. And I didn't know we have offices, like, all over the world pretty much, but particularly like LA, New York. And there's some people from the New York office in LA for an event. And I was at the bar, talking to someone I'd never met or seen before. And we started talking and figuring out that –

That's how New York goes right, you go up to the bar and start talking... 

Yeah. And so we're basically at, yeah, we figured out that we're under like the same department, but like different teams. And we just start small talking and she goes, Oh, we're going to dinner. We're taking our clients out, you should come with us, practically. You're on our team. So you should come. And I was like, you know what, you're right! I am on your team. I should go to your client dinner.

So where were you going, by the way? Because I'll definitely come. 

Oh, you would have joined us! It was it was sushi. You love sushi! And so the point being is that it was, so, it had nothing, I mean, it had to do with work, but it was really about, 'let's hang out'. And at that table was I think SVP and a VP of this department that I don't work directly under, but my boss works with these people. And then the senior manager who invited me, and then they're, you know, very well connected clients and we're all having sushi and we're, you know, we're laughing at that, I'm kind of like the random person at the table. Which made for a story and it also allowed me, because I had, you know, no skin in the game, to really be myself and to just hang out with with everybody naturally. And it was really fun because I ended up getting to know my coworkers in New York, at this LA restaurant for this, you know, this dinner party, like, I got to know them, that I would have never otherwise been able to know them. So now when I do work with them on projects, which is funny, like, fast forward a few months, I see one or two of them on calls. 

And I'm like, I remember you and right away, for me at least, like, sushi together. Yeah, um, like you bought me a few cocktails. And we had, I just remember the conversations we had, I remember how we were talking as if we were people, not co workers. And so then it made the co-working work easier, and a little bit more like, you know, my perception of them is also higher, whether they're great at their job or not, the perception after knowing them from the dinner is that they must be amazing at their job. So I already go into working with them thinking that we're going to be a successful team. They know what they're doing, I trust them. And so that kind of lingers a lot.

I'm like, 'okay, how can I put myself in situations where I meet people more on that level', it doesn't have to be cocktails and sushi, but it has to still be this, like, personal connection in some way. So that I wanted to share, because that was really powerful to me. And those moments don't happen often enough, I think, because we're still pretty remote work. But back to your question of like, where do you even start? Or how do I start to look, and I think you'd go to a bar and speak to a random person they end up being your coworker. 

That's where you start?

You never know, you never know. Especially big, especially in big cities. But yeah, I think, you know, I find it a little cheesy, which I totally respect when companies try to do happy hours, I'm just like, oh, because it feels forced. But it's also like, it's like a gift to finally meet somebody outside in the bar. I would say my suggestion is like, when you are in meetings, when you are, let's say you're remote work, right, because I'm in that situation, I'm like, half remote. And even if I'm in the Los Angeles office, majority of the people I work with are in New York. So even if I'm in the office, I still am remote for them, you know, but my, my suggestion is like, you know, when you're in these calls, and you're in these meetings, always pick up on things that people say like, at some point, people share a little nuggets about themselves. And then, you know, have some courage and like, chat them later and be like, 'oh my god, I totally love that movie', or, 'oh, my god, that happened to me, by the way', and like, you know, LOL, just to kind of slowly get in there.

Because like, no one may makes a friendship in a day, nobody, you know, no one builds anything great in a day, right? So it's one of those things, you have to slowly kind of put yourself out there and be aware of what's happening and conversations, versus going to like another meeting. And, you know, I see meetings as a challenge challenge, like a meeting for me is an opportunity to learn how people present to see if I can learn tips from them. It's also an opportunity for me to see if I could learn anything new, have a co worker so that I could feel a little bit more connected to and like, have an extra arm out there. I think it's one of those things you have to be aware of. And I look at some people on my calls, and they're just they're on a meeting thinking this is a meeting. And there's two different – there's a different way to look at things. There's 'this is a meeting' or this is a meeting, like what can I learn, like you got to fake the excitement a little bit. 

Because if not, you don't learn about other people. And then you have nothing really to talk about or be personal about. But I've noticed too with myself, like I try to do that in meetings, like I work with finance departments in the law office, and especially other departments, it's easier to be a little bit more yourself because they're not like your direct reports, or they're not your, like, direct boss. So I have actually a lot of friendships and other departments too, because I'm a little bit silly, or I tease them, or a I'll randomly share a food that I was eating. And it feels a little silly in the moment. But I have to tell you like it always works. Everyone always comes in there. You could tell it breaks their day. They're like, Oh, thank God, someone's talking to me like a human. You know, they're not going straight into the meeting notes.

Yeah, that's interesting that you do that – you feel more comfortable with people outside of your team than like, maybe directly on your team. Like you're a bit more...

I could be. I could be like more myself as if I was out of work. Yeah, it takes me a little bit more when it's like, direct reports or my boss because there's that like, 'who do I trust? How do I trust them?' You know, but I still, like, share parts of myself but yeah, more like the Director of Finance probably knows a lot more about me than like the manager of below me, I don't know.

I mean, I share a lot of my stuff regardless, but you know, I don't have to, like, prove something or like I'm the boss kind of thing when it's when it's some buddy who I don't really work with her for as regularly, where I think as a manager you, you could be yourself but there's still some sort of boundaries in a personality you put, you know, you don't say like, oh my god, I have had a hangover today or I over ate my pizza or, you know, there's there's just things –

[Speaking Italian]

Yeah, exactly. I mean, I have not – just so we're clear, I haven't – not that it matters, but like, I haven't had a hangover in a long time at work. That's what my 20s was for.

Oh, yeah, no, that that's definitely a 20s thing. I don't I don't think I can say I had it. Well, I mean, maybe – smooth right over that one.

No, that's true that like, what you don't want to, maybe, let's say divulge too much, or, you know, sometimes you you want to have more of that - that manager role. So you're not going to say to one of the people in your team that you manage, 'oh, man, welcome to our one to one, I'm so hungover.' Yeah, might be a little bit different. Like, oh, I'm actually eating my, my kale and broccoli salad.

Yeah. And also, like, I think the the relationships that you really have to build, those take time to build trust, when it's someone in your peripheral. Like, it's always easier for people to tell their life story to a stranger than to like their mom or best friend, sometimes, you know, like, the guard is down more. So. But yeah, that's my, that's my two cents. You know, always looking for opportunities to like, 'What's the dog's name? What's that person's baby's name? How's the baby? Or how old is this? And how are you feeling?' Or, like, for example, somebody on a call one day, she's like, 'Oh, I gotta go. I have a date.'

And then the next day I chatted to her, I was like, 'So how was it?' I put like a, b and c, like a, he's a winner we're getting married, b, he was so much better on paper, c, like, I blew him off and hung out with my girlfriends. Like, I just wanted to be like, 'hey, I remember you went on a date?' And I'm connecting as a human of like, how did it go? And then, of course, it like, created this dialogue between us in chat for like, two minutes, it was funny. And now next time we hang out, I'm probably gonna feel even closer to her because I'm like, oh, yeah, I know something about her. And we shared something, you know. So it's like, you got to put yourself out there a little bit.

And that goes into the, I think, one of the factors of building that friendship, or that friendship at work, right, is trust, like, even if it's something, you know, not super important, but just the fact that, you know, she shared, she was going on a date with you, and you interacted with her. And you remember that, and you followed up on that. That's the other important thing, right? Putting your listening ears on, not only saying, 'Oh, that's nice', but like, being genuinely interested in saying, 'Hey, I remember, you know, you said you had this opportunity, or this engagement, or the state or whatever it is', and say, 'How did it go?' And did you like it or whatever.

I think that's incredibly important. And a lot of times, it seems really common sense. But that part is forgotten. You know, like, maybe you do share things, or you listen to things in certain meetings. And it takes that extra bit of effort to go and chat if you're remote working, or you know, go to the office or go up to that person and say, hey, you know, or, you know, the person said, they, they were going on vacation last week, how was your vacation? Where did you go and what, you know, how was it or whatever that is, that's something that really does build a personal connection and trust with the other person. And then in turn, when you have to go and ask something from that person for work, or work together in something, the ice is already is broken.

And it's not like, you know, for me, it's natural. So I'm just breaking down my natural personality, it looks strategic, but I also like to connect and have fun with people. And I think for whoever's listening, if it's not – if it doesn't feel natural to some people, it's still something I suggest, like, try to do it, because, like, to your point, it's better than having some connection before you even reach out for a work question than only having work questions with somebody, like you're gonna communicate probably with this person anyways, so like, why not? Just test it out? Like, you know, open it up a little bit?

Yeah. And that also, I mean, it just makes work more pleasurable too. When you have more people that you're connected with and you feel a connection with and that you are okay to go and ask or you know, ask advice or ask for help on something right? We spend so much time at work as it is. Right, there was this one thing I was reading, you spend 90,000 hours of our lives at work? That's a lot of time, so that's why not – unless you're a 29 year old YouTuber millionaire and just decide to call it quits, but, yeah, I mean, you want to make these connections that make relationships and make work more fun and make what you're doing more fun, and having that engagement at work means you're more involved, means you're more into your job, means the things that you're doing are probably going to be easier and more fun.

And, you know, feeling free to reach out to people, when you have that connection with someone and ask – I had this the other the other week, I had, you know, I work a lot with our designers, and I love them, they're great. But also sometimes cultural differences play a role. And we're similar. We're extroverts. It's like, I'll go up and talk to anyone I meet on the street at the bar, oh, yeah, walking my dog. I know every single one of my neighbours with a dog now. But it's not, that's not always the case. And sometimes it's a cultural thing. Like if you're, you know, you were brought up with with different ways of interaction, you're not going to just go up and just start up a conversation with them. And in this meeting, we had to discuss what we needed to, you know, some templates that needed to get done and whatnot. And they're probably going to listen to this – shout out to my design team!

And it, I felt like the, like, we weren't understanding each other, like I was saying what we needed. And they were saying, yes, but we should do it this way. And I'm like, no, we should maybe do it this way. And until we had like, a break in the conversation, where I noticed one of my colleagues, he's having this conversation as he's waiting for his kid, picking his kid up from school, I made a comment about, you know, his child and school pickup and this and that. And that totally broke the ice, things got lighter, you know, it was easier to talk about the actual work stuff that needed to get done. And so – and that's super important. That was a really small detail. And, you know, I don't know a whole lot about all of their personal lives, they probably know way more about life than they'd like to know. [Laughter]

But yeah, that helps so much. And that really just takes two things, you know, being a good listener, and then even if you're an introvert, just taking that little bit of action to act and follow up or comment or ask or just acknowledge what the other person is going through.

Yeah, that's powerful. I especially like to your point of different cultures, and then also, even if it's same culture, but it's different mentalities, depending on the department, because like, if you generalize, 'Oh, this department tends to be this way' these types of – you know, accountants are this way, finance people are this way, marketing people are this way, PR people are this way, like, some of it kinda can ring true, like developers are this way. And yeah, it is helpful, I think, what do we have? We have like a baseball team at work. And I am not on that team. 

You have a baseball team? That's cool. 

Yeah. I also like it's, it's like, it's 30 miles, the office is 30 miles for me, it's like a 45 minute drive, one hour 20 Max, which is rough. I avoid those times. But I'm like, you know, I appreciate that you guys have that. And I'm saying this because it's like, it's about a sport, not about department, right? So it's like mingling different departments where, like, it does break the ice. If next time you need something, you're like, Oh, I know that guy. I feel comfortable talking to him. Because like, you know, I caught his ball, and I got him out. So now I could tease him about it and ask him about work or whatever. Yeah, I don't know if the baseball team is still a thing. Maybe I don't get the emails because I'm not on the team. So I don't know.

You're not in that Whatsapp group.

They're like, 'Uh, no, thank you.'

'Tiana missed like, every single ball in the last game. So she's not in our team.' No, no, she's not in our baseball email. 

I'll carry the snacks from the office to the fields. And then... I don't know. Yeah, I'd rather – I would like team yoga. If we did a team yoga or something. I'm down. I'm down. 

But let's get back a second to specifically female friendships because I mean, I think this is all really well and good and and we touched on a lot of good points about just you know, being open and acknowledging and listening and breaking the ice and some good points – I think every meeting should start with like, a two minute icebreaker because that just lightens everything up.

But specifically like, having another female friend at work, what do you what do you look for in a in a female friend or how how do you start that relationship? Or do you have any – do you have a work wife, best friend?

Yeah, that's... I had that a lot at my last job. We all know Susan, whoever followed me on Snapchat years ago and Instagram, Susan made an appearance and she was my corporate bestie. And we were, I think three years in the same office. I remember, we gravitated to each other because we were at a small town, and both of us were two of the few people that were from, like a bigger city. And so we saw things a bit differently. And we had a lot of aspirations to leave the company and like, go somewhere else, again, where a lot of the people that work there, as amazing as they were, like, a lot of them just lived there, and, you know, are from that area, so they, you know, they were probably not going to leave the company ever, or anytime soon. So she and I really connected of being like the most type A on the team and like trying to get stuff done.

I don't know if her gender affected it as much. I think it helped in the sense of like, you know, girls tend to gossip or like, like to vent more, like my form of communication is what she understands so well of me, like, I will vent for 20 minutes, and then I am so good. Like, no hard feelings, I'm over it like, I move on where like, I've noticed, if I do that to another friend, they think I'm so caught up that they'll ask the next day like, are you okay? I'm like, no, I'm fine. Like, I'm good. You know, I just needed to release this stuff. And the fact that she was female helped in the sense of, of course, sometimes we thought things weren't fair, gender wise. And so she and I can be like, 'Did you see that? Did you see that?' Because, you know, if I asked the guy maybe wouldn't really notice it as much and wouldn't fall victim to those kinds of things that we noticed, like micro aggressions towards – just gender, not really race. 

Also, Susan is a different race than me. So she also experienced other, different things, aside from just being female. And so we talked about a lot of those things pretty openly. And, yeah, I think I think a same gender is helpful, because the likelihood of them knowing where you're coming from is probably higher. I've not tested this theory, but that's what I'm assuming. But I know Susan would had a really good friend who was a guy, and aside for me, like, we were like, a throttle, let's put it, you know, like, she was really close to him. I was really close to her. She would tell me the conversations they had, and it was basically about, you know, he started to come to light like, oh, wow, they're really rough on you. And why is the executive team doing this to you or saying this to you? And like, she had to educate him, where she didn't really have to educate me as much, you know. 

So yeah, I think in terms of like, the bestie, I think gender, same gender, is really, really helpful. Or at least same type of minority, let's put it you know, if it's five guys and two girls, like two girls should probably stick together. But yeah, I think I mean, where are you with that? Because I guess everyone you work with? Well, now everyone you work with is global. But before it's just you and like, culturally speaking, a lot of Italians.

So that was really interesting. And I moved to Italy, when I was 21, I think, and being, as I said, pretty much an extrovert my whole life I had no problems making friends. It was great. But that is a good point. Because in the workplace, I mean, as any good old American, I had summer jobs since I was 16. I was no stranger to working. Whereas Italians tend to get their first job when they're like 24. But working with all Italian colleagues, and being the only American sometimes I did feel out of place because they would say jokes that I just didn't get or not, not necessarily because of the language barrier, but maybe because I didn't know that that video series or that, you know, that series that they they watched when they were kids, because this Japanese anime was like this huge thing in Italy. We just had Disney. So there were certain things that I just I had a little bit more trouble connecting on due to the cultural differences. 

And also, I found that like, certain ways of working and various different – I've had a bunch of different jobs since I've lived here. Just the way of approaching things. So Americans tend to be very ambitious and like, you know, driven. Of course, this is very generalized, but I'm a very ambitious person, a very driven person. I'm proactive. If I will go out and be like, okay, yeah, you want to do this, like we could do it this way, this way, that way. And sometimes that was not taken so well by some of my other Italian employers or even some of my managers, they didn't – they were very taken aback as I came off as, as some people told me to my face, as very bossy, and hoo that got me going, they're like, 'Oh, she's, she's the Bossy American.' And so I for a while, I didn't realise if this is like, something that I should be toning down, you know, as a woman, I was like, but I've always been this way. Why? Why should I change, I've always expressed my opinion, and just said my mind, in any meeting in any place, obviously, of course, with respect. But a lot of people weren't used to that here.

And when I finally made some really good female connections in, let's say, my publishing job, that helped me so much, because I could then talk to them directly about it and say, do you think I'm bossy? Was I too brash in that meeting? Or? And so they would tell me as a woman, and as a friend, no, you know, that's, that was the first time when someone said no, but we're just not used to having, let's say, someone at the time, you know, who's 26 and American who's speaking, you know, not even mother tongue, Italian, speaking Italian, and, just going off on this, that and the other thing, or, you know, adding my opinion on something like they were, you know, management style was a little bit more old school. And again, this was old school publishing. So, you know, it was a lot of old white men in these meetings. And me this 26 year old blonde American coming in, and just saying exactly what I wanted, when I wanted, you know, or adding my opinion, genuinely, when they said, 'Well, what, what are you going to do about this', and I would say, 'Well, I think blah, blah, blah.' And, you know, that was a, they were taken aback by that.

So part of that was, I think, some cultural difference. And some of it was just, you know, not, I guess, again, as a woman in the workplace not being taken seriously, or because I'm this, you know, someone from – who's not Italian, who is quite young, although, for me, I mean, 26, there's managers at 26, in the United States, and they're already at the second tier of their career. And here, that's not the case, because a lot of people go to school later, they go to university later, they're getting their first jobs at that age, they're not – they don't have all this work experience yet, they were just taken aback by that. And I had to make the decision whether to somehow adjust my actions, or, you know, continue like that, or, you know, in order to move forward, how I should be acting as a woman also as someone from a totally different cultural background. So when I was able to bounce that off some of my female friends that I came to know and really trust in the company, that really was helpful for me, because some of the things they would explain like, you know, it's not you, it's not a personal thing, they just, they don't expect that really from someone so young. And, and the other part of it was, keep doing what you're doing, girl! You know, things need to change. So that was really helpful.

And I was really thankful for their trust and their friendship in those situations, to just bounce ideas off and say, Why did I get this reaction in that meeting? Or, I have this idea, but no one's really taking me seriously. Or to just do that to say, how would you approach this from your cultural standpoint as an Italian, as a woman? And as an another manager? How would you do this? And they would give, they would say, this is how I would do it, or this is maybe some slight thing that I would change to make it more approachable. Because I'm also a very direct black and white person, kind of in your face, and if you don't know that about me, and if you don't like it, tough luck. But yeah, that's, that's good and all, good and well, but sometimes, I'm not saying to adjust your behaviour, but sometimes you really need to read the room and know how to approach people, understand cultural differences, and, you know, act the way and say the things that you you need to get your end result. But you know, be also accepting for certain things.

Yeah. I can't imagine that experience without someone to talk to about it – like, someone you trust, you can really say – because for me that's a hard place to be in, you're new somewhere, if there's an issue, there's a political thing that's blowing up, and you're kind of like on the sidelines or in it, and you're like, 'who do I go to that I can trust', that won't just then, you know, share my story to the boss or someone else to just look good. Because there's people who can't help themselves, who just want to be in it, and they wanna cause gossip or stir things up, and in moments like that you need someone who can actually listen to me and keep our conversation private.

I know they always talk about – especially for women in the workplace, as soon as you join a team look for the ally and partner with somebody, because you never know when those issues could pop up. You can be amazing, no issues, with like 30 years of therapy which nobody's done, and come in fresh but like, still something's gonna rock the boat and without any support system like, it's incredibly hard to do. And then you only have your friends or your partner at home to talk to about it but they don't really have the full story, because that's just your one side or perspective, so then it's harder to maybe face the truth and grow from it than thinking that everyone else is dumb or whatever – versus in your situation it was, you were a cultural phenomenon in the room, and they were like, 'what do we do with this?'

'What do we do with her? Oh, we weren't ready for that.' Yeah. There's some good stories – some good laughs about that. But yeah, cultural differences in the workplace – and also language barriers. But that also ties back to, especially working in global companies, both of us, and working remotely, we're on calls with people that speak different languages, where English isn't their first language, everyone has been bought up differently with different ettiquette styles, and you still have to find that connection and common ground to get the work done at the end of the day.

And, it's for me absolutely fundamental that I had these girlfriends in my life at my workplace to a, understand how to get ahead and learn how to make change and do great work in this environment, but also to have that confidant to go to and say, 'hey, what do you think about that situation?' Some of that was just totally 'oh, that was borderline sexual harassment' – 'okay, that's what I thought too' – I'm exagerrating, I've never had sexual harassment situations, but it's let say, a gender equality issue – 'she said she's 26 and she's this young American girl, we don't have to listen to her' – that happened when I asked for my first raise, I'd done all these projects and accomplished a lot, and I was basically – I got the eye roll, and got told 'as soon as you finish this next thing we'll talk about it'. And I'm like, wait a minute –

I probably met you way after that, but you were still at that publisher house, and I remember it was still difficult.

It was tough. It was touch-and-go. But we can get into negotiating contracts and negotiating raises in another episode. But yeah, I think we've said a lot here on female friendships in the workplace –

You know what's funny though? We've done everything together besides work together, but then I'm like hey, we're on this podcast, so maybe we're finally work friends – you're finally my work wife Nadia!

You're my work wife! There you go. A light at the end of the tunnel. That is funny, we have never actually worked together, this is the first opportunity. There you go. 

All right, well, thanks to all the women who've supported my loudmouth and Nadia's because, you know, I feel like we're cut from the same cloth in many ways there. And yeah, I think this this has been a good episode for me because it's just a reminder to of like, how much more I can go out there and like, make more connections and network and that's been a really a big goal for this year for me, because none of us know where we're going to be in six to 10 years, and the people we meet now might save us one day and we might save someone. So, it's – there's nothing like a really strong network. There's 'oh I know this person, I know this person' versus really knowing somebody. This has inspired me to keep building those relationships. 

Yeah, that is so true. The connections that you make now, you never know how far they're gonna go or how much you can help someone else, or how you can be helped in the future. Like I said, I'm at my job today because one of my work besties came through, and we stayed in touch, and... yeah!